ezmlm: Thread: How about filtering the list too?


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Subject: How about filtering the list too?
From: ####@####.####
Date: 24 Dec 1996 00:06:57 -0000
Message-Id: <199612240002.NAA15161@crom.trimble.co.nz>

SmartList has many features I'd like to see in ezmlm. It can
auto-unsubscribe addresses that cause too many bounces, and runs on
both the subscription address _and_ the list itself. It gets rid of
most of those unwanted "help"/"subscribe"/etc messages that normally
end up annoying list subscribers. 

Would that be a big job to add to ezmlm? 

-- 
Jason Haar, Unix/Internet Support, Trimble Navigation New Zealand
Phone: +64 3 3391517	Fax: +64 3 3391417


Subject: Re: How about filtering the list too?
From: "D. J. Bernstein" ####@####.####
Date: 24 Dec 1996 02:19:53 -0000
Message-Id: <19961224021953.25717.qmail@koobera.math.uic.edu>

> It can auto-unsubscribe addresses that cause too many bounces,

This is easy enough to do, but is it the best way to handle bounces?

> runs on both the subscription address _and_ the list itself.

To put filters at the publishing address you just edit the appropriate
.qmail file. I'm not sure I want to get into serious filter design.

---Dan
Put an end to unauthorized mail relaying. http://pobox.com/~djb/qmail.html

Subject: Re: How about filtering the list too?
From: ####@####.####
Date: 24 Dec 1996 02:33:22 -0000
Message-Id: <199612240228.PAA10074@crom.trimble.co.nz>

On 24 Dec, D. J. Bernstein wrote:
> > It can auto-unsubscribe addresses that cause too many bounces,
>  
>  This is easy enough to do, but is it the best way to handle bounces?
>  

I don't know about anyone else, but I've run some largish mailing-lists
before, and it was a god-send moving over to SmartList. Suddenly all
those postmaster bounces were dealt with in a 99% correct manner. 99%
is good enough for me when you're getting 300+ error messages a week...

Auto-unsubscribing means the user is sent a final "you have been
unsubscribed" message (which probably bounces anyway). What is worse -
incorrectly unsubscribing a few (I think "few" is all it would be)
people who had transient problems with their address, or having to
manually deal with every person who gets their account deleted and
doesn't bother unsubscribing from their lists?

> > runs on both the subscription address _and_ the list itself.
>  
>  To put filters at the publishing address you just edit the appropriate
>  .qmail file. I'm not sure I want to get into serious filter design.
>  

Yeah - I thought that'd be all there was to it. In fact, if you make
the "auto-detect subscriptions/help" code a function, it could easily
be used for both the subscription address and list itself.


-- 
Jason Haar, Unix/Internet Support, Trimble Navigation New Zealand
Phone: +64 3 3391517	Fax: +64 3 3391417



Subject: Re: How about filtering the list too?
From: ####@####.####
Date: 24 Dec 1996 03:34:25 -0000
Message-Id: <19961224032817.25152.qmail@desk.crynwr.com>

D. J. Bernstein writes:
 > > It can auto-unsubscribe addresses that cause too many bounces,
 > 
 > This is easy enough to do, but is it the best way to handle bounces?

Not immediately it isn't.  It depends on what kind of resources you're
willing to dedicate to tracking down bouncing addresses.  The
algorithm I use with my bounce manager is to keep a running total of
the bounces.  When I get a bounce, I add two.  When mail gets sent to
the list, I decrement it by one.  If the total exceeds fifty, I
unsubscribe them.  Then, a month later, I send them a reminder.  Seems
to work for the volume of mail on the lists I use it on.  The constant
fifty probably needs to be adjusted for the daily volume, since some
bounces are related to the number of days since the mail first started
bouncing.

-russ ####@####.####    http://www.crynwr.com/~nelson
Crynwr Software sells network driver support    | PGP ok
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice | The more corrupt the state,
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | +1 315 268 9201 FAX   | the more numerous the laws.

Subject: Re: How about filtering the list too?
From: ####@####.####
Date: 24 Dec 1996 03:53:22 -0000
Message-Id: <19961224034720.25204.qmail@desk.crynwr.com>

Jason Haar writes:

 > What is worse - incorrectly unsubscribing a few (I think "few" is
 > all it would be) people who had transient problems with their
 > address, or having to manually deal with every person who gets
 > their account deleted and doesn't bother unsubscribing from their
 > lists?

The reason I'm so gung ho on single rcpts is because I don't need to
look at ANY bounces.  I never see them.  My bounce manager handles
100% of them automatically.

-russ ####@####.####    http://www.crynwr.com/~nelson
Crynwr Software sells network driver support    | PGP ok
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice | The more corrupt the state,
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | +1 315 268 9201 FAX   | the more numerous the laws.

Subject: Re: How about filtering the list too?
From: David Dyer-Bennet ####@####.####
Date: 26 Dec 1996 18:12:16 -0000
Message-Id: <19961226180611.17118.qmail@gw.ddb.com>

Jason Haar ####@####.#### writes on 24 December 1996 at 13:02:19 +1300
 > 
 > SmartList has many features I'd like to see in ezmlm. It can
 > auto-unsubscribe addresses that cause too many bounces, and runs on
 > both the subscription address _and_ the list itself. It gets rid of
 > most of those unwanted "help"/"subscribe"/etc messages that normally
 > end up annoying list subscribers. 

To my mind, handling of bounces is one of the most crucial features of
a mailing list manager.  If you don't have that, you don't have a
product IMHO.

Subject: Re: How about filtering the list too?
From: David Dyer-Bennet ####@####.####
Date: 26 Dec 1996 18:19:59 -0000
Message-Id: <19961226181354.17140.qmail@gw.ddb.com>

D. J. Bernstein ####@####.#### writes on 24 December 1996 at 02:19:53 -0000
 > > It can auto-unsubscribe addresses that cause too many bounces,
 > 
 > This is easy enough to do, but is it the best way to handle bounces?

YES!  (Note the "too many".  In SmartList, you can specify what the
auto-unsubscribe threshhold is on a per-list basis.  You still see the
bounce messages, with additional headers telling you things like "this
is the third bounce for this address".)

Subject: Re: How about filtering the list too?
From: David Dyer-Bennet ####@####.####
Date: 26 Dec 1996 18:22:45 -0000
Message-Id: <19961226181640.17171.qmail@gw.ddb.com>

####@####.#### ####@####.#### writes on 24 December 1996 at 03:47:20 -0000

 > The reason I'm so gung ho on single rcpts is because I don't need to
 > look at ANY bounces.  I never see them.  My bounce manager handles
 > 100% of them automatically.

I'm sufficiently happy with SmartList that I wonder if a better use of
resources might be to add the capability of using the owner hack,
rather than writing a whole new mlm.  


Subject: Re: How about filtering the list too?
From: ####@####.####
Date: 6 Jan 1997 22:07:17 -0000
Message-Id: <199701062208.LAA24562@thoth.trimble.co.nz>

On 24 Dec, D. J. Bernstein wrote:
>  
> > runs on both the subscription address _and_ the list itself.
>  
>  To put filters at the publishing address you just edit the appropriate
>  .qmail file. I'm not sure I want to get into serious filter design.
>  

Just to bring this up again - I think the last few days worth of people
sending unsubscribe msgs to ####@####.#### shows the reason why it's
important to filter even the list itself... :-)

 -- 
Jason Haar, Unix/Internet Support, Trimble Navigation New Zealand
Phone: +64 3 3391517	Fax: +64 3 3391417


Subject: Re: How about filtering the list too?
From: "D. J. Bernstein" ####@####.####
Date: 14 Jan 1997 04:10:11 -0000
Message-Id: <19970114041011.4951.qmail@koobera.math.uic.edu>

I've looked into this. It seems that practically all subscription and
unsubscription attempts have either no Subject, a blank Subject,
Subject: subscribe, or Subject: unsubscribe, aside from spacing and
case. It'd be easy to catch all of these.

Perhaps any message without a 15-character subject should be bounced.
(I think Subject should have been tossed years ago in favor of Summary.)

---Dan
Put an end to unauthorized mail relaying. http://pobox.com/~djb/qmail.html

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